Integration Architect Feb 17, 2009

This area is very unconsolidated and out of control.  It is difficult to keep all tha devices patched and userid’s secure.  there is limited SSO. 

There is very limited acceptance of IPMI 2.0 SMASH 2.0, and each piece needs what it needs over SSH, SSL, telnet, or RS232, modbuss, and TCPIP.

We use a combination of dozens of tools like ILO, RSA, DRAC 5, BladeCenter, Virtual Center, IBM Director, HP SIM, Dell Manager, IPMON, Ciscoview, Syslog, Kiwi, ASA firewall tools, Majic Helpdesk, Remedy, Carrier Bandwith Portals, Active Directory Replication Monitor, SMS/MOM, VMWare Ranger, APC Central, APC Infrastructure Manager, SiteScope, SAN Management Tools, SAN Replication Tools, Vertitas Replication Monitor, Honeywell Building Access Control applications, CRAC out of band RS232 Building Manager Software, Avocent DSVIEW, Landesk, Power Management Applications, ESX Resource Scheduler, and on and on because no unified console does everything for (i.) Event Monitoring (ii.) ALerting (iii.) Configuration and Change Management. 

Deploying and Rolling back a change management firmware update is a very manual process for the Enterprise. 

Hardware is very customized by all the vendors with 100’s of islands of technology and hands on process with limited automation.

Robb Boyd Feb 17, 2009

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Integration Architect.  Lots of tools to juggle there.  Sounds like rollback and the traditional pain of multiple islands would be good to address where possible.

EagleScout - good input on NetFlow.  Sometimes it feels like that has been well covered in other places but the depth is amazing and worth digging into again.

Thanks!

PainInTheNetwork Feb 17, 2009

We use PacketTrap Perspective and love it. We used to use MOM from Microsoft but it doesn’t handle multivendor sites very well. It’s cheaper than SolarWinds, has about 80% of the functionality and the people were easier to work with than WhatsUpGold - in fact, the support team never got back to me from IpSwitch during my trial. PacketTrap got right back to me. That means they’re either very responsive or have very limited amount of business, not sure which

We also choose the PacketTrap Toolset pt360 over SolarWinds. SolarWinds has a few more tools, but who really cares about half of them anyway. PacketTrap’s GUI is a more intuitive and robust.

adavis2 Feb 17, 2009

We use EM7 from Science Logic.  Interop has used them for the last couple of years as their offical network monitoring and help desk tool.

It’s a great product and cheaper than the big boys.

Integration Architect Feb 17, 2009

RB, right, who has the time to juggle security updates or even do the SAS 70 type 2 yearly governance audits on all those tools?  It is difficult to justify thier costs to non IT bean counters let alone keeping track of hostnames and physical rack/row/floor/site locations for all of them is difficult. 

A 3d Apperature type modeling provisioning tool (where do I have network/power/space/cooling surplus to provision a new server) that flows like Cisco works that is real time integrated with data feeds that could spawn a session directly to one of those tools is really needed.  Without breaking the bank.

Robb Boyd Feb 17, 2009

Tell me what kind of problems these tools are solving for you. Are you getting systemwide view and control?  CiscoWorks pro and con? This is great info - thanks for sharing!

JimmyRay_Purser Feb 18, 2009

Network Management is truly the most customizable of all the networking disciplines. However, it is installed and config’ed very off the shelf in many networks. NMS means something different to all of us right? It should be different for every network. I know that I have turned against canned vendor solutions for many years and just chose to manage my networks with scripts and custom wrote apps. But scalability is the issue here. Plus the more functionality/higher up the OSI stack we integrate into hardware, the more I need to use vendor management software…darn it…

Let’s just face it, network management sucks worst then attending a in-laws family reunion sober. But how we lower the suck factor depends upon the flexibility of the solution. This is why I believe some of the best network management is going to come from the vendor of the product.

The REAL trick to me that makes one vendor product better then the other is how tight the network management code jockeys work with the network device developers. Sure we all know the FCAPS framework and Walking MIBs, but how do I correlate a MIB, With RMON, With Flow data, With SMON and get a full picture of all 7 layers of a network. The R&D investment for a company other then a vendor to invest here is cost prohibitive for most.

Many vendors try and cut that cost with outsourcing. For example, one NMS product has a RADIUS port listed as 1,812. I do not want to name names here and PROfessionally put a CURVE on my post, but that is a clear indication of outsourced code development and therefore a detached development cycle between NMS and hardware. The result, a disjointed NMS that really only adds a java graphics package to odd school NMS. Big deal man!! If that is the case, go with Open Source and load up the private MIBs and save your money.

A vendor should always have a MAJOR value add in their NMS. It should be so glaringly obvious that you should spot it in 15 minutes or less and it should change the way your workflow processes. That is what I look for in a NMS for my networks today.

Jimmy Ray Purser

HockeyTown2004 Feb 18, 2009

We have used Solarwinds and their Orion application most consistently to monitor all devices within the enterprise as it allows setup as a single interface, web interface that can also send us the alerts based on our rules. Solarwinds has been a good fit end-to-end in monitoring devices that support our entire enterprise network routers, switches, wifi APs, servers for CallManager and ICM Enterprise, etc.

Would have liked to do this with an end-to-end Cisco platform set, but it was too componentized (not a real word, but works here) to provide the functionality to see at the 30,000 foot view and quickly drill down all the way to a specific device’s interface in the case of any alerts and troubleshooting. In addition, as this was attempted through the Cisco application set, costs quickly grew to beyond what should it should have been for a network management platform.

Optimum Network Management in today’s world, for for multi-application, single vendor network infrastructures (such as our is, all Cisco) should be able to monitor the network infrastructure, all levels of the network data, voice and video application infrastructure and provide report sets that show real-time and historical statistical data at a reasonable cost. Solarwinds came close (doesn’t monitor Voice application itself very well, QOS, MOS very well though).

That’s my 2 cents (not counting today’s inflation rate).

RGuyler Feb 19, 2009

I’ll put in a good word for the SolarWinds’ products since theirs was one of two mentioned in the original post.  I find that their Orion suite is very good and with the latest versions integrate reasonably well.  What started out as a simple monitoring solution has grown up into a well-rounded solution for monitoring utilization, system stats, netflow data, etc. and now offers a decent management option as well.

Sure, Openview and similar products are the defacto standard where customization is concerned but ever try to get an HPOV system setup in a week?  Never happen.  And then there is the issue of requiring a full-time position just to manage the system.  Try getting that approved through HR and/or management when that position was never needed before.

I’ve setup and managed Orion systems for both large networks of thousands of users down to very small networks of a couple hundred and never been disappointed.  I also find CiscoWorks to be okay but I’ll take Orion over it any day, even for Cisco gear.  CW has evolved into a much better product than it was years ago but still and all, I don’t find it to be on par with Orion. 

There are other NM systems that I’ve found valuable but no other with the same combination of value, functionality and user friendliness that Orion has.  That said, the *ultimate* value of an NMS such as Orion isn’t how powerful or flexible it is, but rather how quickly and efficiently the system can be turned up and moved into production so we can move on to the next project.

Robb Boyd Feb 19, 2009

RGuyler - great points. These are very useful in the episode prep.  As Jimmy Ray and I are working with the CiscoWorks team, we are finding quite a few surprises.  We love the SolarWinds guys, Josh Stephens is a friend of the show and has been featured as well…but it really is looking like CiscoWorks has a number of features and capabilities that many may be overlooking.  Our goal on any show is to try and find the meaty, overlooked ‘aha’ moments that can impact our audience (you) in a positive way and this is warming up to be one. I don’t think CiscoWorks has ever gotten much love - a less than great reputation has persisted over the years and perhaps ALL of it may not be justified.  We are going to keep culling comments like these to shape the content. For any of you who would like a shout out if we can use your opinions, please shoot us an email and let us know at .

Keep it up!

Jude Percy Feb 25, 2009

Hello and congratulation for the show

I would like to ask some question or to make a comment about the Network Management show

Could you please take a look about

a)cluster server, fault tolerance
load balancing  

b)services ownership and impact of login account on the running services

c)directory integration between Ms
Echange Server and Active directory

d)  how far can we go inside Vmware for simulating network environment

Regards

ps

By the way could you work on a show
Regarding Cisco call manager anb
interaction with voice gateway

Jimmy Ray Purser Mar 5, 2009

Hey Y’all,

Thank you for the awesome feedback. NMS is a really hot topic out there for sure! Stay tuned for more info on the NMS based show. Should be a really tight one!

Jimmy Ray Purser

Evgeniy Sep 20, 2009

Very interesting. Also we use EM7 from Science Logic.
Well approaches under the price and quality.
Thanks

Mtn Nigeria Vacancy Oct 16, 2009

Well, EN& can be use fromScience Logic as the commenters pointed out